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Тема: Самскары.

  1. #1
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    Post Самскары.

    saṃskāra
    способность памяти, ментальное впечатление или воспоминание/раздумье, впечатление на ум об актах, совершенных в предыдущем состоянии существования (одно из 24 качеств Вайшешиков, включающее бхавана, способность репродуктивного воображения).

    в среде Буддистов - ментальное приспособление или создание умственных (таких как то, что о внешнем мире, относясь к нему, как к реальному, хотя он на самом деле несуществующ, и формирование второй связки в двенадцатичленной цепи причинно-следственного возникновения или четвертая из пяти Скандх) Дхарм.
    _______________________________________________________
    Предлагаю рассмотреть тему самскар в контексте учения Будды.
    В частности особенно подробно остановиться на 12-членной цепи причинно-следственного возникновения, "раскрутив" её в обоих направлениях.

    дельные ссылки приветствуются )

  2. #2
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    В словарях.

    Monier-Williams' 'Sanskrit-English Dictionary
    saMskAra m. (ifc. f. %{A}) putting together , forming well , making perfect , accomplishment , embellishment adornment , purification , cleansing , making ready , preparation , dressing (of food) , refining (of metals) , polishing (of gems) , rearing (of animals or plants) Gr2S3rS. MBh. Ka1v. , &c. ; cleansing the body , toilet , attire Hariv. ; forming the mind , training , education R. Ragh. ; correction (also in an astronomical sense Su1ryas.) , correct formation or use of a word Nir. Sarvad. ; correctness , purity (esp. of pronunciation or expression) MBh. R. &c. ; making sacred , hallowing , consecration Mn. MBh. &c. ; a sacred or sanctifying ceremony , one which purifies from the taint of sin contracted in the , womb and leading to regeneration (12 such ceremonies are enjoined on the first three or twice-born classes in Mn. ii , 27 , viz. 1. %{garbhA7dhAna} , 2. %{puM-savana} , 3. %{sImanto7nnayana} , 4. %{jAta-karman} , 5. %{nAmakarman} , 6. %{niSkramaNa} , 7. %{anna-prA7zana} , 8. %{cUDA-karman} , 9. %{upanayana} , 10. %{kezA7nta} , 11. %{samAvartana} , 12. %{vivAha} , qq. vv. ; accord. to Gaut. viii , 8 &c. there are 40 Sam2ska1ras) Gr2S. Mn. MBh. &c. (IW.188 ; 192 &c. RTL. 353) [1120,3] ; the ceremony performed on a dead body (i.e. cremation) R. ; any purificatory ceremony W. ; the faculty of memory , mental impression or recollection , impression on the mind of acts done in a former state of existence (one of the 24 qualities of the Vais3eshikas , including %{bhAvanA} , the faculty of reproductive imagination "') Kan2. Sarvad. (IW. 69) ; (pl. , with Buddhists) a mental conformation or creation of the mind (such as that of the external world , regarded by it as real , though actually non-existent , and forming the second link in the twelvefold chain of causation or the fourth of the 5 Skandhas) Dharmas. 22 ; 42 ; a polishing stone MW.
    Pali http://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/phi....3:1:2800.pali
    Sankhāra [fr. saŋ+kṛ, not Vedic, but as saŋskāra Epic & Class. Sk. meaning "preparation" and "sacrament," also in philosophical literature "former impression, disposition, " cp. vāsanā] one of the most difficult terms in Buddhist metaphysics, in which the blending of the subjective -- objective view of the world and of happening, peculiar to the East, is so complete, that it is almost impossible for Occidental terminology to get at the root of its meaning in a translation. We can only convey an idea of its import by representing several sides of its application, without attempting to give a "word" as a def. trsln. -- An exhaustive discussion of the term is given by Franke in his Dīgha translation (pp. 307 sq., esp. 311 sq.); see also the analysis in Cpd. 273 -- 276. -- Lit. "preparation, get up"; appld: coefficient (of consciousness as well as of physical life, cp. viññāṇa), constituent, constituent potentiality; (pl.) synergies, cause -- combination, as in S iii.87; discussed, B. Psy., p. 50 sq. (cp. DhsA 156, where paraphrased in defn of sa -- sankhāra with "ussāha, payoga, upāya, paccaya -- gahaṇa"); composition, aggregate. 1. Aggregate of the conditions or essential properties for a given process or result -- e. g. (i.) the sum of the conditions or properties making up or resulting in life or existence; the essentials or "element" of anything ( -- ˚), e. g. āyusaṅkhāra, life -- element D ii.106; S ii.266; PvA 210; bhavasankhāra, jīvitasaṅkhāra, D ii.99, 107. (ii.) Essential conditions, antecedents or synergy (co -- ordinated activity), mental coefficients, requisite for act, speech, thought: kāya˚, vacī˚, citta˚, or mano˚, described respectively as "respiration," "attention and consideration," "percepts and feelings," "because these are (respectively) bound up with," or "precede" those M i.301 (cp. 56); S iv.293; Kvu 395 (cp. trsln 227); Vism 530 sq.; DhsA 8; VbhA 142 sq. -- 2. One of the five khandhas, or constitutional elements of physical life (see khandha), comprising all the citta -- sampayutta -- cetasikā dhammā -- i. e. the mental concomitants, or adjuncts which come, or tend to come, into consciousness at the uprising of a citta, or unit of cognition Dhs 1 (cp. M iii.25). As thus classified, the saṅkhāra's form the mental factor corresponding to the bodily aggregate or rūpakkhandha, and are in contrast to the three khandhas which represent a single mental function only. But just as kāya stands for both body and action, so do the concrete mental syntheses called sankhārā tend to take on the implication of synergies, of purposive intellection, connoted by the term abhisaṅkhāra, q. v. -- e. g. M iii.99, where saṅkhārā are a purposive, aspiring state of mind to induce a specific rebirth; S ii.82, where puññaŋ, opuññaŋ, āṇeñjaŋ s. abhisankharoti, is, in D iii.217 & Vbh 135, catalogued as the three classes of abhisankhāra; S ii.39, 360; A ii.157, where s. is tantamount to sañcetanā; Miln 61, where s., as khandha, is replaced by cetanā (purposive conception). Thus, too, the ss. in the Paṭiccasamuppāda formula are considered as the aggregate of mental conditions which, under the law of kamma, bring about the inception of the paṭisandhiviññāṇa, or first stirring of mental life in a newly begun individual. Lists of the psychologically, or logically distinguishable factors making up the composite saṅkhārakkhandha, with constants and variants, are given for each class of citta in Dhs 62, etc. (N.B. -- Read cetanā for vedanā, § 338.) Phassa and cetanā are the two constant factors in the s -- kkhandha. These lists may be compared with the later elaboration of the saṅkhāra -- elements given at Vism 462 sq. -- 3. sankhārā (pl.) in popular meaning. In the famous formula (and in many other connections, as e. g. sabbe sankhārā) "aniccā vata sankhārā uppādavaya -- dhammino" (D ii.157; S i.6, 158, 200; ii.193; Th 1, 1159; J i.392, cp. Vism 527), which is rendered by Mrs. Rh. D. (Brethren, p 385 e. g.) as "O, transient are our life's experiences! Their nature 'tis to rise and pass away," we have the use of s. in quite a general & popular sense of "life, physical or material life"; and sabbe sankhārā means "everything, all physical and visible life, all creation." Taken with caution the term "creation" may be applied as t.t. in the Paṭiccasamuppāda, when we regard avijjā as creating, i. e. producing by spontaneous causality the sankhāras, and sankhārā as "natura genita atque genitura" (the latter with ref. to the foll. viññāṇa). If we render it by "formations" (cp. Oldenberg's "Gestaltungen," Buddha 71920, p. 254), we imply the mental "constitutional" element as well as the physical, although the latter in customary materialistic popular philosophy is the predominant factor (cp. the discrepancies of "life eternal" and "life is extinct" in one & the same European term). None of the "links" in the Paṭicca -- samuppāda meant to the people that which it meant or was supposed to mean in the subtle and schematic philosophy (dhammā duddasā nipuṇā!) of the dogmatists. -- Thus sankhārā are in the widest sense the "world of phenomena" (cp. below ˚loka), all things which have been made up by pre -- existing causes. -- At PvA 71 we find sankhārā in lit. meaning as "things" (preparations) in defn of ye keci (bhogā) "whatever." The sabbe s. at S ii.178 (trsln "all the things of this world") denote all 5 aggregates exhausting all conditioned things; cp. Kvu 226 (trsln "things"); Mhvs iv.66 (: the material and transitory world); Dh 154 (vi -- sankhāragataŋ cittaŋ=mind divested of all material things); DhsA 304 (trsln "kamma activities," in connection avijjā -- paccaya -- s˚); Cpd. 211, n. 3. -- The defn of sankhārā at Vism 526 (as result of avijjā & cause of viññāṇa in the P. -- S.) is: sankhataŋ abhisankharontī ti sankhārā. Api ca: avijjā -- paccayā sankhārā sankhāra -- saddena āgata -- sankhārā ti duvidhā sankhārā; etc. with further def. of the 4 sankhāras. <-> 4. Var. passages for sankhāra in general: D ii. 213; iii.221 sq., M ii.223 (imassa dukkha -- nidānassa sankhāraŋ padahato sankhāra -- ppadhānā virāgo hoti); S iii.69 (ekanta -- dukkhā sankhārā); iv.216 sq. (sankhārāṇaŋ khaya -- dhammatā; id. with vaya˚, virāga˚, nirodha˚ etc.); Sn 731 (yaŋ kiñci dukkhaŋ sambhoti sabbaŋ sankhāra -- paccayā; sankhārānaŋ nirodhena n'atthi dukkhassa sambhavo); Vism 453, 462 sq. (the 51), 529 sq.; DhA iii.264, 379; VbhA 134 (4 fold), 149 (3 fold), 192 (āyūhanā); PvA 41 (bhijjana -- dhammā). <-> Of passages dealing with the sankhāras as aniccā, vayadhammā, anattā, dukkhā etc. the foll. may be mentioned: Vin i.13; S i.200; iii.24; iv.216, 259; v.56, 345; M iii.64, 108; A i.286; ii.150 sq.; iii.83, 143; iv.13, 100; It 38; Dh 277, 383; Ps i.37, 132; ii.48; 109 sq.; Nd2 444, 450; also Nd2 p. 259 (s. v. sankhārā).
    -- upekkhā equanimity among "things" Vism 161, 162. -- ûpasama allayment of the constituents of life Dh 368, 381; cp. DhA iv.108. -- khandha the aggregate of (mental) coefficients D iii.233; Kvu 578; Tikp 61; DhsA 345; VbhA 20, 42. -- dukkha the evil of material life, constitutional or inherent ill VbhA 93 (in the classification of the sevenfold sukkha). -- paccayā (viññāṇaŋ) conditioned by the synergies (is vital consciousness), the second linkage in the Paṭicca -- samuppāda (q. v.) Vism 577; VbhA 152 sq. -- padhāna concentration on the sankhāras M ii.223. -- majjhattatā=˚upekkhā VbhA 283. -- loka the material world, the world of formation (or phenomena), creation, loka "per se," as contrasted to satta -- loka, the world of (morally responsible) beings, loka "per hominem" Vism 205; VbhA 456; SnA 442.

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    Smile

    Цитата Сообщение от До1
    В словарях.

    Monier-Williams' 'Sanskrit-English Dictionary

    Цитата:
    saMskAra m. (ifc. f. %{A}) putting together , forming well , making perfect , accomplishment , embellishment adornment , purification , cleansing , making ready , preparation , dressing (of food) , refining (of metals) , polishing (of gems) , rearing (of animals or plants) Gr2S3rS. MBh. Ka1v. , &c. ; cleansing the body , toilet , attire Hariv. ; forming the mind , training , education R. Ragh. ; correction (also in an astronomical sense Su1ryas.) , correct formation or use of a word Nir. Sarvad. ; correctness , purity (esp. of pronunciation or expression) MBh. R. &c. ; making sacred , hallowing , consecration Mn. MBh. &c. ; a sacred or sanctifying ceremony , one which purifies from the taint of sin contracted in the , womb and leading to regeneration (12 such ceremonies are enjoined on the first three or twice-born classes in Mn. ii , 27 , viz. 1. %{garbhA7dhAna} , 2. %{puM-savana} , 3. %{sImanto7nnayana} , 4. %{jAta-karman} , 5. %{nAmakarman} , 6. %{niSkramaNa} , 7. %{anna-prA7zana} , 8. %{cUDA-karman} , 9. %{upanayana} , 10. %{kezA7nta} , 11. %{samAvartana} , 12. %{vivAha} , qq. vv. ; accord. to Gaut. viii , 8 &c. there are 40 Sam2ska1ras) Gr2S. Mn. MBh. &c. (IW.188 ; 192 &c. RTL. 353) [1120,3] ; the ceremony performed on a dead body (i.e. cremation) R. ; any purificatory ceremony W. ; the faculty of memory , mental impression or recollection , impression on the mind of acts done in a former state of existence (one of the 24 qualities of the Vais3eshikas , including %{bhAvanA} , the faculty of reproductive imagination "') Kan2. Sarvad. (IW. 69) ; (pl. , with Buddhists) a mental conformation or creation of the mind (such as that of the external world , regarded by it as real , though actually non-existent , and forming the second link in the twelvefold chain of causation or the fourth of the 5 Skandhas) Dharmas. 22 ; 42 ; a polishing stone MW.


    Pali http://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/phi....3:1:2800.pali

    Цитата:
    Sankhāra [fr. saŋ+kṛ, not Vedic, but as saŋskāra Epic & Class. Sk. meaning "preparation" and "sacrament," also in philosophical literature "former impression, disposition, " cp. vāsanā] one of the most difficult terms in Buddhist metaphysics, in which the blending of the subjective -- objective view of the world and of happening, peculiar to the East, is so complete, that it is almost impossible for Occidental terminology to get at the root of its meaning in a translation. We can only convey an idea of its import by representing several sides of its application, without attempting to give a "word" as a def. trsln. -- An exhaustive discussion of the term is given by Franke in his Dīgha translation (pp. 307 sq., esp. 311 sq.); see also the analysis in Cpd. 273 -- 276. -- Lit. "preparation, get up"; appld: coefficient (of consciousness as well as of physical life, cp. viññāṇa), constituent, constituent potentiality; (pl.) synergies, cause -- combination, as in S iii.87; discussed, B. Psy., p. 50 sq. (cp. DhsA 156, where paraphrased in defn of sa -- sankhāra with "ussāha, payoga, upāya, paccaya -- gahaṇa"); composition, aggregate. 1. Aggregate of the conditions or essential properties for a given process or result -- e. g. (i.) the sum of the conditions or properties making up or resulting in life or existence; the essentials or "element" of anything ( -- ˚), e. g. āyusaṅkhāra, life -- element D ii.106; S ii.266; PvA 210; bhavasankhāra, jīvitasaṅkhāra, D ii.99, 107. (ii.) Essential conditions, antecedents or synergy (co -- ordinated activity), mental coefficients, requisite for act, speech, thought: kāya˚, vacī˚, citta˚, or mano˚, described respectively as "respiration," "attention and consideration," "percepts and feelings," "because these are (respectively) bound up with," or "precede" those M i.301 (cp. 56); S iv.293; Kvu 395 (cp. trsln 227); Vism 530 sq.; DhsA 8; VbhA 142 sq. -- 2. One of the five khandhas, or constitutional elements of physical life (see khandha), comprising all the citta -- sampayutta -- cetasikā dhammā -- i. e. the mental concomitants, or adjuncts which come, or tend to come, into consciousness at the uprising of a citta, or unit of cognition Dhs 1 (cp. M iii.25). As thus classified, the saṅkhāra's form the mental factor corresponding to the bodily aggregate or rūpakkhandha, and are in contrast to the three khandhas which represent a single mental function only. But just as kāya stands for both body and action, so do the concrete mental syntheses called sankhārā tend to take on the implication of synergies, of purposive intellection, connoted by the term abhisaṅkhāra, q. v. -- e. g. M iii.99, where saṅkhārā are a purposive, aspiring state of mind to induce a specific rebirth; S ii.82, where puññaŋ, opuññaŋ, āṇeñjaŋ s. abhisankharoti, is, in D iii.217 & Vbh 135, catalogued as the three classes of abhisankhāra; S ii.39, 360; A ii.157, where s. is tantamount to sañcetanā; Miln 61, where s., as khandha, is replaced by cetanā (purposive conception). Thus, too, the ss. in the Paṭiccasamuppāda formula are considered as the aggregate of mental conditions which, under the law of kamma, bring about the inception of the paṭisandhiviññāṇa, or first stirring of mental life in a newly begun individual. Lists of the psychologically, or logically distinguishable factors making up the composite saṅkhārakkhandha, with constants and variants, are given for each class of citta in Dhs 62, etc. (N.B. -- Read cetanā for vedanā, § 338.) Phassa and cetanā are the two constant factors in the s -- kkhandha. These lists may be compared with the later elaboration of the saṅkhāra -- elements given at Vism 462 sq. -- 3. sankhārā (pl.) in popular meaning. In the famous formula (and in many other connections, as e. g. sabbe sankhārā) "aniccā vata sankhārā uppādavaya -- dhammino" (D ii.157; S i.6, 158, 200; ii.193; Th 1, 1159; J i.392, cp. Vism 527), which is rendered by Mrs. Rh. D. (Brethren, p 385 e. g.) as "O, transient are our life's experiences! Their nature 'tis to rise and pass away," we have the use of s. in quite a general & popular sense of "life, physical or material life"; and sabbe sankhārā means "everything, all physical and visible life, all creation." Taken with caution the term "creation" may be applied as t.t. in the Paṭiccasamuppāda, when we regard avijjā as creating, i. e. producing by spontaneous causality the sankhāras, and sankhārā as "natura genita atque genitura" (the latter with ref. to the foll. viññāṇa). If we render it by "formations" (cp. Oldenberg's "Gestaltungen," Buddha 71920, p. 254), we imply the mental "constitutional" element as well as the physical, although the latter in customary materialistic popular philosophy is the predominant factor (cp. the discrepancies of "life eternal" and "life is extinct" in one & the same European term). None of the "links" in the Paṭicca -- samuppāda meant to the people that which it meant or was supposed to mean in the subtle and schematic philosophy (dhammā duddasā nipuṇā!) of the dogmatists. -- Thus sankhārā are in the widest sense the "world of phenomena" (cp. below ˚loka), all things which have been made up by pre -- existing causes. -- At PvA 71 we find sankhārā in lit. meaning as "things" (preparations) in defn of ye keci (bhogā) "whatever." The sabbe s. at S ii.178 (trsln "all the things of this world") denote all 5 aggregates exhausting all conditioned things; cp. Kvu 226 (trsln "things"); Mhvs iv.66 (: the material and transitory world); Dh 154 (vi -- sankhāragataŋ cittaŋ=mind divested of all material things); DhsA 304 (trsln "kamma activities," in connection avijjā -- paccaya -- s˚); Cpd. 211, n. 3. -- The defn of sankhārā at Vism 526 (as result of avijjā & cause of viññāṇa in the P. -- S.) is: sankhataŋ abhisankharontī ti sankhārā. Api ca: avijjā -- paccayā sankhārā sankhāra -- saddena āgata -- sankhārā ti duvidhā sankhārā; etc. with further def. of the 4 sankhāras. <-> 4. Var. passages for sankhāra in general: D ii. 213; iii.221 sq., M ii.223 (imassa dukkha -- nidānassa sankhāraŋ padahato sankhāra -- ppadhānā virāgo hoti); S iii.69 (ekanta -- dukkhā sankhārā); iv.216 sq. (sankhārāṇaŋ khaya -- dhammatā; id. with vaya˚, virāga˚, nirodha˚ etc.); Sn 731 (yaŋ kiñci dukkhaŋ sambhoti sabbaŋ sankhāra -- paccayā; sankhārānaŋ nirodhena n'atthi dukkhassa sambhavo); Vism 453, 462 sq. (the 51), 529 sq.; DhA iii.264, 379; VbhA 134 (4 fold), 149 (3 fold), 192 (āyūhanā); PvA 41 (bhijjana -- dhammā). <-> Of passages dealing with the sankhāras as aniccā, vayadhammā, anattā, dukkhā etc. the foll. may be mentioned: Vin i.13; S i.200; iii.24; iv.216, 259; v.56, 345; M iii.64, 108; A i.286; ii.150 sq.; iii.83, 143; iv.13, 100; It 38; Dh 277, 383; Ps i.37, 132; ii.48; 109 sq.; Nd2 444, 450; also Nd2 p. 259 (s. v. sankhārā).
    -- upekkhā equanimity among "things" Vism 161, 162. -- ûpasama allayment of the constituents of life Dh 368, 381; cp. DhA iv.108. -- khandha the aggregate of (mental) coefficients D iii.233; Kvu 578; Tikp 61; DhsA 345; VbhA 20, 42. -- dukkha the evil of material life, constitutional or inherent ill VbhA 93 (in the classification of the sevenfold sukkha). -- paccayā (viññāṇaŋ) conditioned by the synergies (is vital consciousness), the second linkage in the Paṭicca -- samuppāda (q. v.) Vism 577; VbhA 152 sq. -- padhāna concentration on the sankhāras M ii.223. -- majjhattatā=˚upekkhā VbhA 283. -- loka the material world, the world of formation (or phenomena), creation, loka "per se," as contrasted to satta -- loka, the world of (morally responsible) beings, loka "per hominem" Vism 205; VbhA 456; SnA 442.
    Ааааааааааааа!!!

  6. #6
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    Да, присоединясь к мнению-ааааааааааа.
    До1-весьма познавательно, прям зачитаешься
    Часов пять читал енти иероглифы, кайф неимоверный, пока читал кажись в стадию лхундруб попал
    Про самскары усё стало понятно.
    Попытаюсь в ближайшие три кальпы выучить наизусть
    приведённую До1 цтитату, а затем буду на небесах Тушита-эту непревзойдённую мудрость проповедовать господу Индре.

  7. #7
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    спасибо Ассаджи, До1
    кажись, с самскарами более-менее все понятно

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratitya-samutpada
    вот хотелось бы комментарий, где бы разбиралось каждое звено в обычном и обратном порядке.

  8. #8
    Основной участник Аватар для Толя
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    Есть про пратитьясамутпаду в книге Классическая буддийская философия глава 7 (выложена в сети). Еще помню очень интересно писал Сбnavнra Thera на своей Дхамма-страничке, но адреса не могу найти (есть на dharma.org.ru в разделе Тхеравада, там же есть и ссылка на критические замечания). Сам пока до конца не дочитал т.к. сессия идет. Надо много чего попутно посмотреть из терминов.

    Начало:

    In spite of the venerable tradition, starting with the Patisambhidбmagga (or perhaps the Abhidhamma Pitaka) and continued in all the Commentaries (see Anguttara V,viii,9 ), paticcasamuppбda has nothing to do with temporal succession (cause-and-effect). Precedence in paticcasamuppбda is structural, not temporal: paticcasamuppбda is not the description of a process. For as long as paticcasamuppбda is thought to involve temporal succession (as it is, notably, in the traditional 'three-life' interpretation), so long is it liable to be regarded as some kind of hypothesis (that there is re-birth and that it is caused by avijjб) to be verified (or not) in the course of time (like any hypothesis of the natural sciences), and so long are people liable to think that the necessary and sufficient criterion of a 'Buddhist'[a] is the acceptance of this hypothesis on trust (for no hypothesis can be known to be certainly true, since upon the next occasion it may fail to verify itself). But the Buddha tells us (Majjhima iv,8 ) that paticcasamuppбda is:

    sanditthiko akбliko ehipassiko opanayiko paccattam veditabbo viссъhi.

    immediate, timeless, evident, leading, to be known privately by the wise.

    What temporal succession is akбlika? (See CITTA [a].) For an ariyasбvaka, paticcasamuppбda is a matter of direct reflexive certainty: the ariyasбvaka has direct, certain, reflexive knowledge of the condition upon which birth depends. He has no such knowledge about re-birth, which is quite a different matter. He knows for himself that avijjб is the condition for birth; but he does not know for himself that when there is avijjб there is re-birth. (That there is re-birth, i.e. samsбra, may remain, even for the ariyasбvaka, a matter of trust in the Buddha.) The ariyasбvaka knows for himself that even in this very life the arahat is, actually, not to be found (cf. Khandha Samy. ix,3 and see PARAMATTHA SACCA [a]), and that it is wrong to say that the arahat 'was born' or 'will die'. With sakkбyanirodha there is no longer any 'somebody' (or a person -- sakkбya, q.v.) to whom the words birth and death can apply. They apply, however, to the puthujjana, who still 'is somebody'.[b] But to endow his birth with a condition in the past -- i.e. a cause -- is to accept this 'somebody' at its face value as a permanent 'self'; for cessation of birth requires cessation of its condition, which, being safely past (in the preceding life), cannot now be brought to an end; and this 'somebody' cannot therefore now cease. Introduction of this idea into paticcasamuppбda infects the samudayasacca with sassataditthi and the nirodhasacca with ucchedaditthi. Not surprisingly, the result is hardly coherent. And to make matters worse, most of the terms -- and notably sankhбra (q.v.) -- have been misconceived by the Visuddhimagga.

    It is sometimes thought possible to modify this interpretation of paticcasamuppбda, confining its application to the present life. Instead of temporal succession we have continuous becoming, conceived as a flux, where the effect cannot be clearly distinguished from the cause -- the cause becomes the effect. But this does not get rid of the temporal element, and the concept of a flux raises its own difficulties.[c]

    The problem lies in the present, which is always with us; and any attempt to consider past or future without first settling the present problem can only beg the question -- 'self' is either asserted or denied, or both, or both assertion and denial are denied, all of which take it for granted (see NA CA SO). Any interpretation of paticcasamuppбda that involves time is an attempt to resolve the present problem by referring to past or future, and is therefore necessarily mistaken. The argument that both past and future exist in the present (which, in a certain sense, is correct) does not lead to the resolution of the problem.

  9. #9
    Основной участник Аватар для Толя
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    C инетом глюки не открывается для редактированя пост а букофки неправильно отображаются, Nanavira Thera его зовут.

  10. #10
    Основной участник Аватар для До
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    Что-то не так сделал? У меня нормально видно, может надо заинсталить какой фонт, который у меня уже есть..



    ps. Это про моё предыдущее сообщение.
    Последний раз редактировалось До; 08.05.2007 в 23:01.

  11. #11
    Основной участник
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    Цитата Сообщение от Ужж
    вот хотелось бы комментарий, где бы разбиралось каждое звено в обычном и обратном порядке.
    Есть первоисточники:

    Патичча-самуппада-вибханга сутта http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipit....002.than.html

    Маханидана сутта http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipit...15.0.than.html

  12. #12
    Основной участник Аватар для Толя
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    Цитата Сообщение от До1
    Что-то не так сделал?
    Скопировал из ворда и нажал кнопку отправить (все было нормально). А получились русские буквы

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